Huw: Was ChinesePod your first podcast?

Hank Horkoff: Yes, it was. We just added a new feed for advanced students as well.

Huw: It seems very ambitious for a ’first go’. What persuaded you that there was an audience for a podcast aimed at Chinese learners?

Hank Horkoff: I think we just approached it differently. We first started by looking for ways that technology could solve problems of the average language student here in Shanghai. From our research we found that students often spent more time traveling to/from class and waiting for class than they actually spent in class. This seemed like a big inefficiency to us and we speculated how things would change if students were able to listen to their instructional materials on the way to class and then use their actual class time more efficiently to practice.

We did start small (two to three people) and have been very fortunate to get a lot of positive attention that has allowed us to grow. As for Chinese, most learning materials are of very low quality so there isn’t a whole lot of high-quality existing competition. With the 2008 Beijing Olympics and China ascending onto the global economic stage, it seemed quite clear that more and more people would be learning Chinese.

Huw: How many people are currently involved in the production of ChinesePod?

Hank Horkoff: There are about 30 people involved in ChinesePod with roles in academic development, lesson production, PHP/MySQL tech support, design, customer support and management. It is a large team, but we have ambitious goals and are already profitable (being located in China helps to keep tech costs down).

Huw: Did you need some ’up front’ investment to get started or did you sink your own time and money into the venture and just keep your fingers crossed?

Hank Horkoff: We did it gradually, but the founders invested US $100K to seed the company. After a couple months it became clear we had something, so the founding team all moved full time to the new venture (all previously had their own companies in Shanghai so we had more flexibility). We have ambitious plans and are still hiring aggressively.

Huw: It’s notoriously difficult to persuade people to pay money for content on the web. Has it been an uphill struggle to get people to sign up for the paid-for content? Is it really possible to make a profit out of podcasting?

Hank Horkoff: From the start, we realized that it would be difficult to lock down and charge for the podcasts, so we took the opposite approach and opened them up and licensed them under a Creative Commons 2.5 license. The challenge we had then was how could we surround this free commons content with paid services on the edge. I guess the approach could be seen as a ’loss-leader’ strategy and in many ways, the model is similar to how Red Hat makes money from open-source Linux.

We started with a Basic subscription that just offered PDF transcripts for free. We then added a Premium subscription with much more extensive web-based review tools. Our strategy is to continually listen to what our audience is asking for, provide it for them with the hope that more and more will convert to paid members. We are currently converting more than 10% and this figure continues to grow.

An additional benefit to the CC licensing is that it removes barriers of adoption for the product. In a copyright world, a teacher would have to clear the use of copyrighted materials before they could use them in class. With our CC licensing this barrier does not exist and we are seeing rapid adoption of ChinesePod in universities, high schools and even children’s programs.

I look at the comment ’make a profit out of podcasting’ a little differently. Podcasting is just an enabling technology. Some will make money by providing tools to enable this technology (e.g. microphones, mixers, etc.), but I believe most will just add it to their arsenal of available weapons to achieve their business purposes, be they marketing, training, entertainment, etc. After all, how many people would say today, "make a profit out of email"?

Huw: OK, now let’s see if you can give me some tips. If I want to make a successful podcast, what are the main things I need to do? And what are the pitfalls to avoid?

Hank Horkoff:
1. Be passionate about your topic.
2. Listen and engage your audience in a conversation - not only on site, but off site using conversation tracking tools, such as Technorati.
3. Make money. Too many blogs and podcasts start off enthusiastically, but tend to fade over time as their benefactors lose interest. Making the podcast into a business ensures (a) the podcast will live long into the future and (b) continual improvements can be made to the service.

Huw: Which other people’s podcasts do you listen to?

Hank Horkoff: IT Conversations, without which ChinesePod never would have been conceived PRI’s Open Source, as I am somewhat media deprived in China

Huw: What equipment do you use when recording the podcasts?

Hank Horkoff: Behringer audio gear. Macs for multimedia creation, PCs for web development work. If you are interested we have some studio photos on Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ChinesePod

Huw: What software do you use for audio editing?

Hank Horkoff: Cool Edit Pro.

Huw: And which CMS/Blog software you use?

Hank Horkoff: We use a heavily customized version of WordPress.

Huw: In your view, what are the special features in a CMS that are a ’must have’ for podcasting?

Hank Horkoff: As long as the CMS supports enclosures, the ’must haves’ are relative to your specific business goals.

Huw: How is the ChinesePod syndicated? Is it done directly by WordPress or do you use a service such as Feedburner?

Hank Horkoff: via WordPress. We are a little hesitant to use an external service, such as Feedburner, as (1) we lose control over the subscribed feed (i.e. what would happen if they went out of business?) and (2) aggregated services (such as blog host providers) are more susceptible to being blocked in China. Feedburner being blocked in China, would result in us losing a big chunk of our audience.

Huw: Over the past few years we’ve seen the rise of Blogs and now of podcasts. What would you say is likely to be the next big thing?

Hank Horkoff: Clearly, we are already seeing vidcasts, but personally I am looking at other areas of the ’stack’, specifically (a) devices to make podcast consumption easier (e.g. Wi-Fi phones, mp3 players) and (b) software to make the aggregation and personalization of ’micromedia’ more efficient.

Huw: Finally, if you were starting all over again, what would you have done differently? In other words, what lessons have you learnt from your own experience?

Hank Horkoff: We all knew that focus was a key to success, but the problem we found is the timing in focusing. When we first started we also tried an English-language podcast for students here in China. We also spent quite a lot of time evaluating other potential ideas. I guess our approach at this time was to try a number of things and see which ones would ’stick’. About 4 months ago, we decided to solely focus on ChinesePod and dedicated ourselves to making it the best place to learn Chinese. While we are very focused now, there was a tipping point where our doubts were reduced and we decided to throw everything behind ChinesePod which was the product that was gaining traction. To be honest, we probably should have made the decision to focus a little sooner.

ChinesePod - http://www.chinesepod.com

Hank Horkoff is co-founder of ChinesePod where he is responsible for strategy and tech development. Hank is a strong believer in the entrepreneurial spirit as a force of good. Hank is Canadian by birth and has been working in China for 5 years. He blogs at http://network-sense.com.