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The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

by Carl Bateman

or ‘How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love (well, at least not hate) XP’

Monday 12 June 2006.

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• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  17 June 2008, by Sandro Nakaguma

  Same thing happens to me many times a year and it also makes me wonder... Someday..., perhaps someday!

• You hit the nail right on the thumb

  24 March 2008, by Ranbo

  Linux is every bit as painful as stated in this article. I kept hearing people gloat about how great linux was, so I installed it on a machine once and fiddled with it for a long time. However, once it was installed, the gloating from the linux guys turned immediately into excuses for why everything was so clunky and painful. Linux is great for people who like to solve mysterious puzzles like "why in the world doesn’t this work?" But it’s terrible for regular people most of the time.

  I actually use Linux at work. I recently got a new laptop, and, sure enough, I’ve been going through weeks of agony. I created a list of 80 steps I’ve had to go through so far to get my machine up and running, and this was starting from a disk image that was supposedly ready to go. It’s amazing the hacks upon hacks you have to go through to get simple things working like multiple monitors, networking, screen dimming, etc. I say "simple" not because these things are technically simple, but because somehow Apple and even M$ have made them seem simple to end users for many years now.

  The problem with Linux is that it’s written by amateurs. Yes, they may be professionals in real life, but nobody is doing usability testing and spending weeks polishing the interface and making sure everything runs well, because, hey, people are getting it for free, so why bother? Adding new features is the fun part of programming, so that’s what people are willing to do. Debugging and making things solid and user-friendly are hard work, so nobody wants to spend their donated time on those things.

  I still use Linux at work because they sort of make me, and also because Windoze still uses carriage-return/line-feed on text files and backslashes in path names, and those two things combine to make life really annoying when your servers are linux machines. Windoze just isn’t a reasonable choice for our servers, whereas Linux works great there. Macs are great, but are too pricey to use when you’ve got hundreds of servers. On the other hand, using a Mac for development may have saved the company more than what they paid me to spin my wheels in frustration getting networking and other things running on my dumb linux laptop.

  • You hit the nail right on the thumb

    27 March 2008

    Sigh. I’m starting to feel a bit guilty about that article now. I had truly horrendous problems with Ubuntu on several computers and I doubt that I will ever try to use it or its variants ever again. And, of course, the unrelenting whine of zealots made the experience even more unpalatable.

    However, I have found a number of other distro’s that do work with varying degrees of ease, my favourite being Suse which even has a helpful, supportive community.

    As you point out, all operating systems have their shortcomings, and the system one uses seems to be a case of picking the least worst option or following the dictates of circumstance (or employer).

    Mac, Linux, Windoze... does it really have to be this way?

    • You hit the nail right on the thumb

      8 April 2009

      LAWL LINUX SUX@!!!!2!@12#!#!@

      Thats who you look like to those ignorant fools.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  19 January 2008

  “I like to think that I’m fairly intelligent. I have a good degree in Computer Science with Electronics. I’ve worked with computers of one sort or another for over 20 years, I’ve been a programmer/analyst for eight years, I worked in IT support for four years. But try as I might I cannot install Linux.”

  Carl,

  I’m at a loss for words after reading your working history above. I think if a monkey had that much experience - it would be able to install Linux. You should seriously consider trading jobs with the Janitor if after all that experience you can’t even install Linux.

  What do you find hard about installing Linux? The part where it says "click Next to continue" ?

  Idiot.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    24 January 2008

    Hmm, that’s just the sort of thing Hitler would say... it’s a pity that you weren’t truly lost for words. Do you also laugh at funerals?

    It’s pretty exhausting having to continually deal with half-wits who go off half-cocked. If you took the time to actually read the article you would see that one of the problems is numpties like yourself who are just too-o-o cool to help, but not too cool to be asinine and sanctimonious. If you can’t (or won’t) help then shut the hell up.

    At least Ubuntu has the likes of JanC who seem to be interested in improving things rather than stroking their own egos.

    I’ve subsequently installed SUSE with great success and have used numerous LiveCDs with varying degrees of success, which leads me to believe that there are some basic incompatibilities between Ubuntu and my setup... ah, what’s the point, you clearly don’t care.

    • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

      20 February 2008

      I love Linux. At one point in time, I had several distros running on my old(er) box. But when I installed ubuntu in my newest computer, it ran flawlessly... once I remove my graphics card and use the on-board video card. Evil XP had no problems recognizing the card. But wait! win98 didn’t have a problem with the card either!. just install the drivers after the installation is done. Ubuntu? It won’t let you boot. Heck, the only error it gave you was "kernel panic" at boot time. Yeah, it’s obvious that it’s the video card.

      Linux is free only if the time you spend on it is worthless.

      As for all of you who think that you must be brain-dead to be unable to install linux, I have nothing to say. I will not stoop down to your level by returning the insult.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    17 October 2008

    Truly shocking! A monkey without any IT experience could install linux!

    • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

      17 October 2008

      Truly shocking! A monkey without any IT experience could install linux!

      Ah, but where can you find one when you need one...?

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    11 February 2010, by Michael J. Welch, Ph.D.

    I agree that it’s easy to install Linux. I’ve used Linux for 8 years, and also used it on my laptop. It recognizes all my laptop’s hardware (Dell Inspiron E1505).

    I still use Windows XP on a laptop because I have to maintain some legacy software, and the old M$ Visual Studio and VB6 won’t run on Windows 7, even if I could work faster between crashes. Also, I use HyperTerminal, and it (like a lot of older software) won’t run on Windows 7. Windows 7 still has bugs that have been in windows since Windows 97. They drive me crazy. (I know: I’ve also been a Windows developer that long, God forgive.)

    Linux is programming salvation using one of the many nice IDEs, like Netbeans or Quanta Plus. The nicest part: Linux doesn’t crash a dozen times a day. (I know, it’s not Windows, it’s my hardware. Oh yeah? Then why does Linux run on the hardware without crashing?)

    They made Windows 7 for me, TO PISS ME OFF!

    Five years ago it was hard to install Linux, but now all you have to do is pop in a "live" CD or DVD, boot it up to be sure it’ll run on your configuration, and if your configuration works (probably it will), you double-click on the "Install on HD" icon, follow the instructions, and the job is done.

    Now, that being said, if you want to install complex stuff like Apache with FastCGI and RoR, ya, you’re going to need help, but that’s because the installers don’t always work well, and sometimes need expert tweaking—it’s not Linux’s fault. Actually, I use Nginx, Passenger, and RoR because it’s easier to get working. Almost any other package installs easily with the package manager.

    If you’re installing it as a second OS side-by-side with Windows, I’d recommend you get another machine for Linux, or at least a bootable USB disk to run Linux off of. Don’t load it onto your Windows disk. Try Ubuntu 9.04 because I run it and it works fine. I’m not sure about Ubuntu 9.10 because I had some problems with it, and I’d have to reinstall it on a test machine to see if the problems were mine or 9.10s.

    If you want to install it as a server (command line, no GUI desktop), there are great help articles at slicehost.com. I’ve used it on my slice, and it works great, especially with Nginx, Passenger, and RoR.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  16 August 2007

  Heh. I feel for you. I’ve been toying around with linux since 1998 as a "hobby". I say hobby, because, really, there’s nothing that can be done on linux that can’t be done on windows or other pricey software solutions in the professional environment. Corporations really rather spend $$$ on overpriced software, and I’m more than happy collecting my overpriced paycheck to run it all. Of course there’s exceptions, but nothing worth mentioning.

  With that said... try a recent Knoppix LiveCD. It has the greatest chance of working with pc hardware (Working GUI + Internet connection + sound). Ubuntu LiveCD would be my second choice/recommendation. The benefit of a LiveCD is that you’re guaranteed not to screw up your existing system.

  If you ever really want to learn more about linux after that, I’d recommend using the LiveCD distro that works for you to install linux from scratch using just source code. Google "Linux From Scratch" to find out more about that.

  Good luck, and have fun playing with Linux.

  The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)
• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  9 June 2007, by _wee

  I’m sorry, no really. I’m honestly sorry.

  If you don’t know how to install Linux, which is basically the same process as installing XP, then really are you SURE that little paper that says you earned a degree really is in fact a degree.

  There are install instructions, on the website. Or, if you looked hard enough which I know you didn’t you could either VIA the website or on google look up the Ubuntuforums. Which pretty much answer any and every question you could possibly have ABOUT ubuntu. It’s a shame, I read this article and your article about Ruby, and it disqusts me.

  THERE ARE GUIDES OUT THERE.

  I’ve never used Linux before, in fact I never knew there was anything outside of WINXP until last year. And the first time I popped in my Ubuntu live cd, and turned it on I installed it. IT WAS THAT EASY. As for the guy who recommended Gentoo. I personally don’t like having to wait 3 years for my destro to compile/install. And that’s NOT an exaggeration.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    11 June 2007, by Carl Bateman

    If you can’t be bothered to read the article properly, please don’t waste your time and mine writing a response to what you think you read.

    I tried to clearly and carefully explain the problems I encountered and the disappointingly poor support that was available at the time. But no, me tooo stoopidd 2 turn on computorr... der... so me not can’t possibly have problems. You should at least try to read it properly.

    Your reply typifies the arrogance and short-sightedness that seems so prevalent in the less salubrious quarters of the Linux community. Linux is not perfect, and not everybody who dislikes it, or has problems with it, is a mental defective.

    Unfortunately, Ubuntu is the very distro I’ve had the most problems with, I mean really terrible, awful, nightmarish, arse-numbingly bad problems... hence the sodding article!!! Live distro or install, Breezy Badger or Retarded Racoon or whatever the hell stupid name it had, the live distro dropped me out to some cryptic command line, the install beggared up my computer.

    By the way, I have never, ever written about Ruby.

    Please, get a clue.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  5 June 2007, by grafman

  Hmmm... I’m a died-in-the-wool Windows developer, but have _never_ had a problem installing Linux (RHEL, Fedora, Ubuntu, etc).

  I recently set up a triple-booted system that supports Vista, Fedora and Ubuntu - all sharing a common FAT32 partition. The only issue I had was making the mistake of not installing XP first - now that Vista is installed, I can no longer install XP without wiping out my boot partition.

  I’m having a hard time understanding what possible problem you could have encountered installing Ubuntu - it is by far the easiest OS I’ve ever installed (not counting DOS).

  As for OpenGL - the performance on Ubuntu rocks:

  OpenGL Benchmarks
• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  1 April 2007

  HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

  Wait, seriously?!?

  HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  18 March 2007

  Oh, come on! I’m 15 and got it on the first try. It’s not that hard. Seriously, degrees really must not mean as much as I thought.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    4 April 2007, by Carl Bateman

    It’s not that hard.

    Ah, but it is!

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  17 March 2007

  Are you the kind of person that tries something once and gives up? I think you’re the kind of person that is completely ignorant of a subject and tries to explain the good and bad about it. You’re the kind of computer user that formatted a hard drive therefore you think you know everything about the computers. You have a worthless book-smart computer science degree from the 1980’s.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    4 April 2007, by Carl Bateman

    Are you the kind of person that tries something once and gives up?

    No.

    I think you’re the kind of person that is completely ignorant of a subject and tries to explain the good and bad about it.

    I am recounting my own experience of trying to install Ubuntu (which I doubt I will ever try again, it still makes my blood boil to recall, and seeing ads for it or books about it makes me want to scream) and the truly abominable shortcomings that it highlighted and I feel should be addressed. No more, no less. I have no control over whatever knee-jerk, biased interpretation you wish to cast it. Sort of brings up the whole "deluded" aspect, don’t you think?

    You’re the kind of computer user that formatted a hard drive therefore you think you know everything about the computers.

    Err, did you actually read the article?

    You have a worthless book-smart computer science degree from the 1980’s.

    1990’s, actually, but somehow I doubt you really care.

    • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

      12 August 2007, by Bill A.

      Carl,

      I have been using unix, linux, bsd, and windows for over 10 years in a professional capacity. I agree with you about Ubuntu and Ubuntu support, and linux support in general.

      My first experience with Ubuntu on my laptop was ok (no decent wireless support). The next generation of releases resulted in more issues, not less for the same "supported" laptop. The latest release (bumbling bambi) would not install no matter what I did. This is not due to my incompetence, but to the incompetence of the Ubuntu package devs who did not fully test the debian installer, and the debian team who made significant changes to said installer without checking or testing fully. This was not documented until months after the release, and most people still aren’t aware of those problems and just reply with subgenius comments like "yer a noob, Ican 1n5tall, wrksfine RTFMFTW!!1!".

      Months later, still no rollouts of a new installer. AFAIK, no plans to rollout until the next release, either. But Compiz has received several patches that makes squishy windows run faster! Wow, eye candy over basic function. That’s all I can say.

      For me, my response was not to run to XP, but to OpenBSD, which works flawlessly on the same hardware. But I ran that way because I am familiar with OpenBSD, probably in the same way you are familiar with XP- you aren’t going to be suprised them. I don’t criticize you one iota for walking away from a distro or OS that can’t hold its water. Ubuntu is NOT ready for anyone but fanboys when it puts eye candy over function as a goal and policy from the top. The only reason I use it on other systems in my home is because specific hardware I own does not have the same installer issues, and I use Komodo IDE and VMware under linux- which are easier to support than running virtualized under OpenBSD. The OS serves its basic purpose.

      And for those who want to ballyhoo this man, go check out which wireless cards REALLY work under Ubuntu, the "laptop ready" OS/distro. There is only ONE wifi card chipset that is listed as having full native support, all of the others (which, incidentally are all third party and aftermarket cards which linux users end up using, and poorly supported if at all). After that, compare the hardware compat lists for XP and OpenBSD (both are easier to find, btw), and you will see which OSes really care about their average, and not fanboy, users.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  13 December 2006

  I was glad to read your article. I use WindowsXP and have played around with Linux from time to time (don’t ask me why for I don’t know). I found the "live" CDs interesting and once managed to install Ubuntu on a separate partition and both OSs worked independently and very successfully. I was very impressed with Ubuntu, particularly the automatic updating. Then I decided I wanted the extra disk space back and got it but only by reformatting my HD with the WindowsXP. Later, when I tried to reinstall the Ubuntu again (again, don’t ask me why, as if I’m not juggling enough things in my life—probably playing with Linux is a feel-good basically meaningless exercise that, like all obsessional activity, has the ability to reduce anxiety), it wiped out my WindowsXP totally. Think I’ll forget about Linux. Windows may cost more but it does save time for the ordinary working person. Though some open source programs (Mozilla, OpenOffice, both in the Windows versions) are outstanding and far superior to the MS versions. I never could figure out how to save files when using Linux. One pays for ease of use. But I won’t bother upgrading to VISTA until 2011. (OK, maybe I will if I get a smaller and lighter laptop). Just my two cents.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  24 November 2006, by LUTi

  Interesting... I have to say I didn’t have any experience with linux 4 years ago, today I have 2 servers (centOS & Fedora) which are causing much less problems to me that 3 workstations and a home PC (all with XP). And I am not a professional, just use the RTFM (you know, read the f**ing manual...) approach from time to time.

  I would say linux does exactly what is is told to, windows always knows better what you want as you do. It is terribly sensitive to HW changes in comparison to linux (I change components quite often...) and extremely "wise" sometimes - for example, I like to have 3 primary partitions and XP install somehow never attach a letter D to the second one, but something above (and, letter D to the one of logical drives on extended one...). Why?! To make me angry, probably. There is plenty such stupid examples, proprietary solutions and so on. Did it ever happenned to you that your NIC died and you didn’t have the same one? XP recognizes the new NIC (network card), but don’t allow you to use the same IP as before, saying another NIC is using it. Which one, if that’s the only one present?! You have to mess with Registry Editor (carefully!)... In linux, no problem at all!

  So, I wouldn’t say so generally something is worse if I simply don’t know enough, or if I am not precise enough. Is it hard to drive a car? For a majority of people no, for someone who never tried it probably terribly... But, I have to agree Ubuntu (last stable version) is weird. New beta version (or however it is called) is much more user friendly. With fedora 6 you have to do something really stupid to mess up the PC. CentOS (RedHat) also, if you don’t try it with some recent version. Debiaa is also OK now, for the other I don’t know. I suggest you to try again, with last versions - you’ll see the installation process improved very much in last few years. Now you really have to be "genious" (or, make some mistake or something stupid) to fail with a basic installation and configuration.

  I hate WinBlows more and more, as I see how friendly linux is becoming and on the other hand how weird Bill Gates moneymakers can behave. Not to mention their approach, with all this authentic checks, activations and so on. I believe XPs I have was the latest from this gang of thieves.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  22 November 2006, by brian5028

  i tried mandriva linux (no geek i) . the drives i wanted wouldn’t boot. POW the drives booted and connected to the net all by theirselves.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  21 July 2006, by mkstevo

  I had began to think that i was dense . Once I installed Linux ( many different versions - at least I did mostly succeed... ) I found that I could not get this , or that to work properly . It might be the printer on one , the scanner on another , the internet ... The list goes on .

  I really liked Xandros . It installed easily , it found the printer/scanner/internet etc . It came with a copy of Open Office ( an old version , but I could live with that ) all went well , I was prepared to switch . There is a but , of course . That but came in the form of Opera . The help files seemed to imply that any installer of the right type would install in Xandros ( it could be RPM installers , but I can’t swear to it ) so I downloaded Opera in the correct format . Double clicked the installer , it started , went along , told me that Opera was now installed . I couldn’t find it . Looked in the ’start menu’ looked all over the disk , logged in and out , nothing . Did this again , same results . I then tried to install it using the Xandros installer , located the Opera package , started the install , was told of success - still couldn’t find it ... After some more head scratching decided that life was too short . Back to M$ .

  I would have stuck with Windows XP , after all it did work reasonably well . Things I didn’t like I could try to better myself with Delphi . Then the latest update was forced upon me and it started ’phoning home’ to Bill every time I switched my PC on . This would have been OK if I had been told the truth of what this ’security update’ really did but no it was never admited what it would do , after a (very) lengthy call to M$ support where they insisted it could not be removed from my PC I flipped .

  So what am I now using ? Not M$ . Not Linux . I now have a Mac Mini . Yes I know that it is Unix based , but it is reasonably well hidden , and it works . Installed programs don’t disappear , printers aren’t lost , scanners work , the internet connects .

  It may not be heaven , it may need some effort on my part to learn , but it certainly isn’t hell .

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  13 July 2006

  Dear Carl,

  I always thought as well I was too stupid to install any kind of Linux... it, too, crashed my system several times: could not load Windows at some point (do you want to boot Linux, Linux or Linux, sire?) and Ubuntu thought right after the installation that it would be a good idea to erase the MBR right away... in short: Linux did things you would M$ expect to do being evil and aggressive and all.

  Yes, I know, this does not happen / cannot happen at all (this is what the Linux people told me)... and right: while Ubuntu says its really user friendly I was not able to establish this "really easy" connection to the internet.

  In short: Thank you, Carl. I AM NOT ALONE, hooooray! (but stoopid enough to give the installation another try with Virtual PC which is now free!)

  kengel

• Why Install Linux at all?

  1 July 2006

  If you’re a software professional who earns a living from developing Windows applications as opposed to a hobbyist who has more free time to tinker, there is no reason to install Linux at all.

  Windows may not be perfect but its virtually everywhere on the desktop and it pays the bills. If there’s any free time left after work its keeping up with new developments not related to Linux.

  The issue is not really Linux at all. It’s just an OS. It should be possible given the power of todays machines to empower the end user with lego like application building blocks and the main reason this hasn’t happened is that it would lead to a great deal of unemplyment.

  Who would pay the bills then?

  • Why Install Linux at all?

    4 July 2006

    For me the main reason why I bothered with Linux was curiosity plus all the hype that went on for some time about how superior it was to Windows and all that. At least where I live this hype reached such intensity at one time (2003-2003) that it actually seemed that the days of Windows were numbered. A third reason was DVD’s it just so happened that at that particular point in history I didn’t have a DVD player but I had a DVD ROM drive in my PC. However, in Windows I had to get additional software such as Power DVD or something like it to get it to play the movies so installing Mandrake seemed like a reasonable option as it played DVD’s instantly the moment the installation was complete without the need for any add on apps.

    And a bit more about paying the bills - imho if all we were ever concerned with was paying the bills the world would be a rather dull place to live in. Sqeuak doesn’t pay the bills but there’s still lots of people doing things in it simply because they enjoy it (at least I think they must enjoy it why else would they do it) Plus we live in a changing world and while Windows is the main stream OS today it doesn’t mean this status quo will continue ad infinitum, in fact it may change in our lifetime, even Bill Gates, peace be upon him, realizes that. For example already today, the general consensus seems to be that Miscrosoft has pretty much missed out on the Internet and far as I know OS’s like Linux and Free(Net)BSD still remain big in that sector and who knows maybe one of these days one of Linux distros will evolve into a main stream OS or maybe it will be a totally differen OS from some company nobody has heard of (granted this is a far fetched scenario but things happen you know). From this perspective there’s more than just hobbyism to checking out things other than Miscrosoft.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  26 June 2006

  I’ve only installed Red Had, Fedore Core, Debian and Mandrake on desk tops. Never had any problems with the installation itslelf except for Debian where the X server never worked reducing me to midnight commander and emacs, but they say that’s the most of the fun of Linux is, that you can forego the GUI. Anyways, I found Mandrake to be the easiest to install and the most stable on the boxes I used it on. I installed it twice, two different versions, both times on a separate partition alongside Windows. Truth be told I was never able to get it to connect to the internet, not that I tried too hard though, the connection in Windows working just fine. What all of this goes to show is that there’s got to be a huge amount of difference between different Linux distros.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  18 June 2006, by Phil_S

  I am not a Linux user, I need Delphi for development. I have installed it a number of times, and found trying to remove the bootloader to go back to a Windows only install pretty painful, but have never lost data due to the installation process. I cannot imagine how the istallation could go so bad the the HDD has become damaged and needs replacing, my interpretation of "Linux seems to have permanently trashed my hard drive."...

  I have managed to install Linux with varying degrees of success on half a dozen machines, including 3 laptops. The Ubuntu live CD boots and finds all the hardware, but does not "out of the box" make the wireless network card work (XP requires the drivers be installed, but then works). I think trying to get a system going with the Live CD is probably a good touchstone of how a Linux install will work.

  Good luck in the future. I intend to do a dual boot system now the Ubutu Live CD system finds my Windows network, printers, and the internet straight from boot. I think Linux is about ready for me, at least.

  PAS.

• You are not alone

  18 June 2006, by Alawna

  Linux sucks. It is not user friendly at all. Not even Ubuntu. Installation might be easy on some machines while the same inst cannot be started on other machines with different hardware. Most people whom I know that tried Linux abndoned it ultimately. Windows is 1000s of years ahead of linux.

  • You are not alone

    8 July 2006

    Yep Agree Linux is over hyped give me windows any day or for servers FreeBSD

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  15 June 2006, by James

  Carl,

  I understand your pain. I have trashed my system in the early days installing Linux, but ever since I found Gentoo I have never looked back. Go to www.gentoo.org and download their install CD. If you follow the Gentoo handbook to the letter, you will get Linux installed.

  Gentoo is a source based distro, meaning you have to compile everything yourself, but it makes it fast and light. It has the best software updating mechanism too in the emerge/portage system and http://forums.gentoo.org will solve any problems you have.

  Good luck.

  James

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    16 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

    Thanks for the kind words and sympathy. I haven’t tried Gentoo, but once I finish mucking about with SUSE... and Knoppix... I’ll give it a whirl. Although the thought of compiling everything fills me with dread.

    • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

      18 June 2006, by James

      When I say "compile yourself" I mean the system does it. Just that the system update mechanism downloads source files rather than binaries.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  15 June 2006

  It’s good to hear a bit of criticism of Linux without the usual over-reaction. I mean, that you still want to install it is not entering into the fanatical sprirt of Linux vs. Windows.

  Have a go with Knoppix. It’s what they call a Live CD. It doesn’t install iteself or mess about with your partition table in any way. It just boots from CD and away you go - toys galore. There are downsides of course, but at least you can see if you like it enough to ruin more hard drives!

  good luck.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    16 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

    Thanks for the positive feedback, much appreciated. Despite the strident tone of my piece I was trying desperately to be fair.

    I’ve played around with Knoppix Games and was favourably impressed, but I’m presently enjoying a degree of succes with SUSE. Once I get to grips with that I may well investigate Knoppix further. I must say that the LiveCD idea is a god send, although even then they can fail (Ubuntu again) but at least they don’t screw you and your system...

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  15 June 2006, by JanC

  Hello,

  Could you maybe give some more info about your system and what exactly went wrong and/or file that info here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubunt... (you’ll probably need to register an account on launchpad for that)? (If you already did that: thanks!)

  ---

  Another anecdotal story: “I just bought a new laptop”.

  The installer CD for the last desktop-OS from Microsoft crashes when you try to use it on this laptop and gives no solution for this problem. Help on how to fix this problem is buried several levels deep in the Microsoft website, and solving it requires you to understand how to master a new installer CD yourself. The only really clear documentation on that I did found on some external site.

  The Ubuntu installer works perfectly fine though. And *all* the hardware in it works out-of-the-box, except for the cardreader, which is already known to work out-of-the-box in the next version of Ubuntu (to be released in October, so before the next version of Windows will be released).

  Maybe I should write an article "The hell that is Windows" now?

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    15 June 2006, by Huw

    "Maybe I should write an article "The hell that is Windows" now? "

    If you can put together a piece that’s as well argued and entertaining as Carl’s feature on Linux, you would be very welcome to do just that. Seriously, if you think you can and would like to do so, please contact me.

    best wishes

    Huw (Bitwise Editor)

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    16 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

    I’d be hard-pressed to remember exactly the steps I performed, and (as I hope you can appreciate) I’m in no hurry to try to repeat them, but I’ll see what I can do.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  14 June 2006

  I would have thought that this article, having been published once already here and discussed to death, didn’t really need chewing over again in another venue.

  *Trolling* Linux zealots? - TOO EASY - like shooting fish in a barrel.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    14 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

    You’d have to discuss that with Huw.

    I do agree that trolling Linux zealots does seem too easy, but that is not the intention.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  14 June 2006

  I agree with you! Linux has been nothing but a complete nightmare for me also!!

  At once point I did finally get a good install and then tried to install other additional software.

  I had to wade thru loads of configuration files with no decent help to guide me.

  I guess I enabled/disabled the wrong option, because when I reboot the machine, the OS was trashed!

  Luckily I installed under VMWare and didn’t trash my faithful WinXP.

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  13 June 2006, by Pat

  I’ve installed Linux at least 25 times over the past 8 years on many different machines and I’ve never lost any data (even the first time). It’s really not that difficult, I don’t understand what you are doing!

  Not that I’m saying Linux meets my needs, every time I’ve tried to use it full time I’ve given up in frustration, but I just don’t agree that doing an install is hard. On my current PC a SUSE installation is much smother than an XP install, certainly much easier than Vista Beta which required unplugging internal hardware to get it to start.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    13 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

    I’m very happy for your success in installing Linux, but as I state in the article, the success of others doesn’t help me in the slightest. And being told that "it’s really not that difficult" just rubs salt into the wound. Nowhere in the article do I claim that I lost data, "only" that installation screwed up my partitions.

    I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong either... one of life’s great mysteries, I suppose.

    • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

      13 June 2006, by Pat

      You do not explicitly state you lost personal data, but you do say that Linux "permanently trashed my hard drive". As you then say you "face the prospect of buying a new drive and re-installing and configuring a hell of a lot of software" you cannot be saying Linux permanently trashed an empty hard drive. Therefore a reader might reasonably conclude that you did trash some data, even if it was just programs and settings on your hard drive that might have been backed up somewhere, and that you hold Linux somehow responsible for this catastrophe.

      Besides, my original comment never suggested YOU did loose data, only that I never had

      Personally I’ve never found Linux partition managers defective although they used to be slightly confusing, rather like Microsoft’s FDISK.

      • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

        14 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

        I don’t think of software as personal data. My data was safely ensconced elsewhere and therefore not lost when the partitions went west. As I state in the article, this time I was able to restore the partitions using Partition Logic.

        At the time of writing, I have bought a new drive, re-installed and re-configured my software. I’m now looking for a suitable tool to clone my drive before once again enduring the Linux Installation Experience.

        Unfortunately, it has been my experience that all the Linux partition managers I have used have been defective.

        • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

          14 June 2006, by Pat

          So why do you intend to install Linux again? Don’t you feel you’ve suffered enough? Is it to provide more material for articles?

          • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

            15 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

            Yes

• The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

  13 June 2006, by Dean

  I would suggest that you take a look at VMWare or MS Virtual PC before trying out a new OS. That way you would not be likely to lose any data. Just for the record, I work on XP daily and sometime on Linux. I have never had any problems with lost data on Linux but have had a couple of corruptions of XP that required a complete reinstallation with lots of pain and some lost data. Probably because I use XP more then Linux.

  The reason for your internet problems was probably related to drivers. This is a known problem area in Linux and is improving.

  • The Hell That Is Linux (Installation)

    13 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

    Nowhere in the article do I claim that I lost data. Installation screwed up my partitions, would using VMWare or MS Virtual PC prevent this from happening? Why should I have to go to such lengths to protect myself? Why doesn’t the installation process warn against this?

    I have been assured by those better informed than myself that Linux is particularly good at all things Internet, so your comment suprises me somewhat. Conflicting information about Linux, ooh, what a surprise.

• The Hell That Is Linux

  12 June 2006

  I have 15 years of experience in IT. I used Linux in the past as a secondary OS. Sometimes I have to do a very simple task in Linux and I survived. Last year I decided to install linux (Mandriva) in my notebook (Dell I-5100) and I had no problems whatsoever.

  The claims on the article seems to be written 5 years ago. Nowadays linux installations are very easy. Even usb hotplug wireless devices are easy to install and configure.

  • The Hell That Is Linux

    13 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

    I’m very happy for your success in installing Linux, but as I state in the article, the success of others doesn’t help me in the slightest. And being told how "simple" it is just rubs salt into the wound.

    The article is based on my experiences over the last couple of years, my most recent installation attempt was two weeks ago. As you rightly point out, from my experiences it is clear that the situation hasn’t improved much over the last five years.

• The Hell That Is Linux

  12 June 2006

  I have 10 years Linux experience, and never, I repeat, never, did I say never?....I never lost single byte of my or users data. I install Ubuntu on more than 100 computers witch already have Windows XP OS...nothing is lost. If you choose option ’Erase my disk’ that’s exactly what you get.

  • The Hell That Is Linux

    13 June 2006, by Carl Bateman

    I’m very happy for your success, but I don’t recall writing about your experiences. As I state in the article, the success of others doesn’t help me in the slightest.

    Nowhere in the article do I claim that I lost data. Installation screwed up my partitions, which I had to recover myself after much effort. Recovery tools included as part of the installation would be a very good idea. Installation software that didn’t screw up the partitions would be an even better idea.

    Yes, I would expect the "Erase my disk" option to do just that, that’s probably why I didn’t select it and that might be why I was pissed off when it did anyway.

    • The Hell That Is Linux

      21 November 2006, by Carl Bateman’s Wakeup call

      ID10T Errors seem to be your forte. Not suprised that you have a piece of paper that you must of spent plenty of $$$ on called a degree. Great you attended a long drawn out 4-8 year seminar. That makes it easy for you to bash the Linux world because of your inabilities. Your Computer Science degree is a Microsoft compatible degree. You should look into some Linux classes. I have no problem in the Linux world. It is Real. You may want to look into Wine so you can run your Windows apps if and when someday someone will overlook your criticism and ignorance and walks you through Linux. Good Luck in life. You need it. I put money on no one ever views this response as the moderator will remove the truth. It seems to be a trend here. Hopefully you eventually stop being so self involved and open up to others. You are better than no one. Once you realize your Degree means nothing, you will see the light. Decompile yourself.

    • The Hell That Is Linux

      24 February 2012, by okLZRyoyLCBKI

      Despite my vneeurts into Ubuntu (and the latest 10.10 is superb product indeed), I always was Fedora user on my older IBM laptop, and this latest release is very neat. If you come from Red Hat , Fedora background, you gonna like it a lot. The installation is a snap (even with sophisticated options). I haven’t encountered any loose ends so far. The filesystem is very nice, process management is nice too. It comes very well equipped, with all office and development tools, games, everything. I am very impressed with this new Fedora 14 and ca recommend it to everybody. I also have Fedora on USB stick and it is very convenient if you want just try it without touching anything on your Windows machine. You just plug it in and boot from it. When you done you just take it with you! Now it sits on keychain, the entire Linux system!